Excellent article. It took guts to talk to these fellows. And the fact you maintained a cool head is quite remarkable. We need more journalists to ask the hard questions and tackle uncomfortable situations. Unfortunately, money talks with all mainstream media. And when the GOP, Trump and Musk control the money and regulations, they then control the media. Also, these groups tend to be wild cards and you never know if violence/retaliation will follow.
Thank you for your courage. Be safe. Keep us posted.
Thanks for talking with these men, Bob. What struck me the most was how genuine their beliefs were. They didn’t come off as crazy and that really scared me. They are dangerously ignorant because of the places they choose to get their news. And, yes, while not completely crazy sounding, their words are hateful and the republican party in Iowa and across the country are way to willing to carry the water of these hate groups. We need to vote better and smarter.
One last note-I will never understand how your head doesn’t explode when you talk to people like this. Well done, Dr. Bob!
Thanks, Kathi, I'm glad you listened. Hearing their voices over reading the transcript adds another dimension. It was hard to talk with them, because I couldn't respond to everything, there was so much craziness. And you hear my frustration when I interrupted them. I should have let them say more, but I had to challenge them and not let them get away with it all.
Good on you for this. Engaging them allows people to see that yes, there are actual NAZIS in our midst. And I especially appreciate that you focused the conversation to shed more light than heat.
I think far too many people use the term NAZI too flippantly to disparage anyone on the right that they disagree with. But here we have two actual NAZIs. Unbelievable.
Although they are a very small portion of society, we must remain vigilant and also with their equally despicable counterparts on the far left that use violence and vandalism.
Engaging with extremists without shouting, and forcing them to try to explain their warped ideas, will expose them. And when radicals do cross the line into violence, vandalism, intimidation etc. then we should let the courts decide their fate.
Thanks Bob. I think your training and experience as an anthropolgist comes through here: You probed and pushed a bit and let them tell their story. Wow. There is a segment out there that's really haywire. I'm sure you too would like to know more, like what kind of fathers they had and were they ever in the military and their experience with explosive devices. There guys were a bit frightening. I'm glad you mentioned Arendt at the end because her notion of the banality of evil is exactly what the GOP is doing when they normalize Nazis and the behavior your just recorded. What do these Republicans think they are doing when they don't condemn racism and hatred toward groups and individuals they believe are unlike themselves? I don't get it. But thanks again for an illuminating piece of Iowa culture, dark though it is. Democracy dies in darkness, as the Washington Post used to say.
Thank you for writing that although they are not evil nor Nazis, Republicans are doing the evil work of Nazis. You delineated their works. Your breadth of experience and knowledge allows you to give the rest of us good insight, Thanks!
Admire your courage and composure in “interviewing” these guys. A very troubling conversation indeed. Also enlightening in a depressing way. Thanks Bob.
I just finished reading Kurt Gray's book, "Outrage: Why we fight about Morality and Politics and How to find Common Ground" Dr. Gray is a young Professor in Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he directs the Deepest Beliefs Lab and the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding. As a Canadian he looks at the issues on hate and moral discomfort in America through a different lens. From the synopsis of the book at Amazon: "It’s easy to assume that liberals and conservatives have radically different moral foundations. In Outraged, Kurt Gray showcases the latest science to demonstrate that we all have the same moral mind—that everyone’s moral judgments stem from feeling threatened or vulnerable to harm." "We all care about protecting ourselves and the vulnerable. Conflict arises, however, when we have different perceptions of harm. We get outraged when we disagree about who the “real” victim is..." I didn't take long after reading your interview with the Nazi protestors at the capitol to see what Gray was talking about as he discussed the concept of "feeling threatened or vulnerable to harm" (if you would rather not read the book, he was interviewed recently on the Commonwealth Club of California on PBS) Those you interviewed feel threatened by our beliefs in support of LGBTQIA2+ and even people of color. We feel threat and harm because of the beliefs you quoted in the article predicated on white nationalism causing hate. As I sit here and plunk away at the keyboard, there is no way I can imagine common ground immerging. Even as you were espousing the goal of learning more about their positions and why they assume them, your questioning to find understanding became more and more combative. Easy to do and easy to defend. Your goal of creating thought and discussion in and among the readers was achieved.
Thank you, Bob, for "belling the mouse" and speaking to those who are...unspeakable. Another journalist/writer who does this is Jeff Chu, for those of you looking for another angle. His book "Does Jesus Really Love Me? A Gay Christian's Pilgrimage in Search of God in America" is eye-opening, as he talks to all sides, including Westboro Baptist Church members (and gets invited in for a potluck). Highly recommend.
Great work! Wonder what those who would force masks off the faces of pro-Palestinian campus protesters (citing the KKK Act) would say about the masks on these men?
I was close by when you started the interview. I noticed you and told my friend you were the best person to report on this. You kept them busy, and they could not use their megaphone for that lapse of time. As they talked to you, I only heard the word pedophile couple of times and decided to go inside where more interesting things were being said. I was waiting for your column to know more about the incident. They were all covered up faceless militia type but fairly short, so they seemed very young to me.
They were young. 20’s, early 30’s maybe. Thanks so much for this post. I saw you later and was going to catch up with you, but it looked like you were having a thoughtful conversation. Next time!
The big tough manly men don't show their faces, WHY?? Because they are whimpy, dickless mommy boys who live at home!!
I couldn't help but notice the difference in vocabulary level and style used by the Democratic chair and the Republican chair.
She was definitely more formal. Also, maybe he was angry that his co-fascists were more transparent than he wanted them to be.
Thanks for this interview. It was spot on. We need to know so much more about these people to understand them and the misinformation that guides them.
Thank you for this article
Excellent article. It took guts to talk to these fellows. And the fact you maintained a cool head is quite remarkable. We need more journalists to ask the hard questions and tackle uncomfortable situations. Unfortunately, money talks with all mainstream media. And when the GOP, Trump and Musk control the money and regulations, they then control the media. Also, these groups tend to be wild cards and you never know if violence/retaliation will follow.
Thank you for your courage. Be safe. Keep us posted.
Thanks for talking with these men, Bob. What struck me the most was how genuine their beliefs were. They didn’t come off as crazy and that really scared me. They are dangerously ignorant because of the places they choose to get their news. And, yes, while not completely crazy sounding, their words are hateful and the republican party in Iowa and across the country are way to willing to carry the water of these hate groups. We need to vote better and smarter.
One last note-I will never understand how your head doesn’t explode when you talk to people like this. Well done, Dr. Bob!
Thanks, Kathi, I'm glad you listened. Hearing their voices over reading the transcript adds another dimension. It was hard to talk with them, because I couldn't respond to everything, there was so much craziness. And you hear my frustration when I interrupted them. I should have let them say more, but I had to challenge them and not let them get away with it all.
Challenging these statements is essential these days, Bob. Thank you for all that you do to keep truth front and center.
Good on you for this. Engaging them allows people to see that yes, there are actual NAZIS in our midst. And I especially appreciate that you focused the conversation to shed more light than heat.
I think far too many people use the term NAZI too flippantly to disparage anyone on the right that they disagree with. But here we have two actual NAZIs. Unbelievable.
Although they are a very small portion of society, we must remain vigilant and also with their equally despicable counterparts on the far left that use violence and vandalism.
Engaging with extremists without shouting, and forcing them to try to explain their warped ideas, will expose them. And when radicals do cross the line into violence, vandalism, intimidation etc. then we should let the courts decide their fate.
Well put. Thanks.
Thanks Bob. I think your training and experience as an anthropolgist comes through here: You probed and pushed a bit and let them tell their story. Wow. There is a segment out there that's really haywire. I'm sure you too would like to know more, like what kind of fathers they had and were they ever in the military and their experience with explosive devices. There guys were a bit frightening. I'm glad you mentioned Arendt at the end because her notion of the banality of evil is exactly what the GOP is doing when they normalize Nazis and the behavior your just recorded. What do these Republicans think they are doing when they don't condemn racism and hatred toward groups and individuals they believe are unlike themselves? I don't get it. But thanks again for an illuminating piece of Iowa culture, dark though it is. Democracy dies in darkness, as the Washington Post used to say.
Thank you for writing that although they are not evil nor Nazis, Republicans are doing the evil work of Nazis. You delineated their works. Your breadth of experience and knowledge allows you to give the rest of us good insight, Thanks!
On the people spreading said QAnon raving:
https://danielpinchbeck.substack.com/p/are-liberals-the-spawn-of-satan
Admire your courage and composure in “interviewing” these guys. A very troubling conversation indeed. Also enlightening in a depressing way. Thanks Bob.
I just finished reading Kurt Gray's book, "Outrage: Why we fight about Morality and Politics and How to find Common Ground" Dr. Gray is a young Professor in Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he directs the Deepest Beliefs Lab and the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding. As a Canadian he looks at the issues on hate and moral discomfort in America through a different lens. From the synopsis of the book at Amazon: "It’s easy to assume that liberals and conservatives have radically different moral foundations. In Outraged, Kurt Gray showcases the latest science to demonstrate that we all have the same moral mind—that everyone’s moral judgments stem from feeling threatened or vulnerable to harm." "We all care about protecting ourselves and the vulnerable. Conflict arises, however, when we have different perceptions of harm. We get outraged when we disagree about who the “real” victim is..." I didn't take long after reading your interview with the Nazi protestors at the capitol to see what Gray was talking about as he discussed the concept of "feeling threatened or vulnerable to harm" (if you would rather not read the book, he was interviewed recently on the Commonwealth Club of California on PBS) Those you interviewed feel threatened by our beliefs in support of LGBTQIA2+ and even people of color. We feel threat and harm because of the beliefs you quoted in the article predicated on white nationalism causing hate. As I sit here and plunk away at the keyboard, there is no way I can imagine common ground immerging. Even as you were espousing the goal of learning more about their positions and why they assume them, your questioning to find understanding became more and more combative. Easy to do and easy to defend. Your goal of creating thought and discussion in and among the readers was achieved.
No, Larry, there is no common ground to be found. Those Nazis lost their ability to see their enemies as people. Sad to say.
Thank you, Bob, for "belling the mouse" and speaking to those who are...unspeakable. Another journalist/writer who does this is Jeff Chu, for those of you looking for another angle. His book "Does Jesus Really Love Me? A Gay Christian's Pilgrimage in Search of God in America" is eye-opening, as he talks to all sides, including Westboro Baptist Church members (and gets invited in for a potluck). Highly recommend.
Thanks, Val. I’ll check it out. It was good to see Kendall a couple of weeks ago.
Great work! Wonder what those who would force masks off the faces of pro-Palestinian campus protesters (citing the KKK Act) would say about the masks on these men?
The distance between stupid (moron) and hate mongering evil, apparently is getting shorter by the hour.
I was close by when you started the interview. I noticed you and told my friend you were the best person to report on this. You kept them busy, and they could not use their megaphone for that lapse of time. As they talked to you, I only heard the word pedophile couple of times and decided to go inside where more interesting things were being said. I was waiting for your column to know more about the incident. They were all covered up faceless militia type but fairly short, so they seemed very young to me.
They were young. 20’s, early 30’s maybe. Thanks so much for this post. I saw you later and was going to catch up with you, but it looked like you were having a thoughtful conversation. Next time!
Interesting that they were worried about losing their jobs if they were recognized.