This is a “thread,” with the idea of generating discussion. There has been much conversation in the Democratic Party about whether or not President Biden should stay in the race, given his disastrous debate performance last Thursday and his age. Several people I have spoken with tell me they would be delighted if he stepped aside. They were excited about the opportunity to consider a batch of younger candidates that they feel would be more effective in challenging former President Trump. What are your thoughts? One of the purposes of threads is also to allow readers to engage with each other, as well as the author of the post. Thanks!
I find it instructive that the Democrats are the only party talking about ditching their candidate. It seems to me that the GOP should be having this conversation because their candidate is a convicted felon and found guilty of sexual assault. Wow! Whose candidate should actually resign? It ain't Biden.
Biden should absolutely step down. He’s lost the trust of many allies who never picked him as their first choice. He was handed the nomination to stop Bernie Sanders, so it’s not surprising that the establishment is dragging its feet. I’m not sure Trump can be stopped at this point, so why not take the risk on younger talent? It’s a serious risk to do nothing. My fear however is that his replacement would be a NY /CA favorite and not someone like Klobuchar or Sherrod Brown who could actually reach GOP voters who would love an alternative.
If you want Biden to step down, the only realistic alternative is Harris. It's not tenable to pass over the Black VP for some white politician and anyone other than Harris would have to start from scratch with no access to campaign funds or infrastructure.
Fair point, but I remember Harris as a candidate, and I don’t see her chances of beating Trump as better than Biden’s. So that would be purely a symbolic choice at this point.
This is why the admittedly imperfect polling data is really important information to consider. At this point it's really not about any one particular candidate, it's about ensuring Trump doesn't win. ie, selecting the candidate most likely to win, and that still might be Joe Biden. I know that feels shortsighted re: policies, etc but that's my reality currently
I don't see Harris winning. She's too vague. I maintain had a man been running against Trump versus Hillary, we wouldn't have had the initial disaster in 2016. I had a sinking feeling at the time there were many older, male Democrats unwilling to vote for Clinton. But they would've voted for a man. The Democrat talent pool is weak. I will throw out something bold, Jon Stewart would have a better chance beating Trump than Harris. Another non politician, a breath of fresh air and funny to boot.
Right — nothing simple about this. I’ve seen Democrats get bogged down in their complicated rules forever. That’s worrisome for sure. In fact I was glad to see Iowa’s caucuses bite the dust. People got tangled up
In knots reading rules at local level. Republicans just choose candidates and go home. Judging from this thread, I see nothing but a Trump victory, which makes me ill.
I’m going to be honest, I did not watch the debate. Most of what I heard about it came from secondhand sources. I’ve been on vacation for the past week, but what I can tell was that this past week has been an important week for politics between the debate, the Supreme Court ruling, and whatnot. And all this political turmoil has been honestly freaking me out.
I turn 17 in August. I won’t be able to vote. With that in mind, along with the fact that I don’t know enough about Biden to make a proper opinion, I am fairly indifferent about whether he steps down or not. What I’m concerned with is the current state of the Republican Party. The more I hear about what they’re doing, the more I fear for our democracy.
I can’t say much about whether or not Biden should step down. What I do urge those who can vote, though, is to vote for our democracy. I know Biden’s a hot topic right now, but you know who should be more? Trump. A convicted felon who’s become a mob boss of an entire political party. Our country cannot afford another four years under him or anyone like him.
I don’t care whether Biden steps down or not. What I care about is keeping our democracy intact. Our future. If that means Biden has to step down and a younger person takes his place, I’m all for it. If it means Biden continues running like normal, so be it. Our democracy is in danger. I hope whatever decision that is ultimately made about Biden is the right one for our democracy.
K.L. is an important voice. As you can see, he is thoughtful and knowledgeable. Please consider subscribing to his substack, and if you can afford it, please consider being a paid subscriber. I am, and love what he is writing. https://kyorion.substack.com/
This is what makes the Democrats so very weak. It is more than disturbing that many are forgetting the remarkable accomplishments President Biden has done over the past 3.5 years and focusing on a 90 minute performance. There has not been a better president in my lifetime and I'm sticking with Joe all the way.
Good point, Michael. I recall how we threw Al Franken out so quickly and now that looks like a big mistake. When are Republicans going to step up and toss out their truly reprehensible candidate?
No question Biden’s fitness for office is a legitimate question. It was much worse than just “a bad night”.
Trump is dangerous. If Republicans won’t reject him then why should D’s reject Biden? Sad for our country but two can play this game.
Sure, I get it. But I didn’t say she was a mistake. In retrospect, Democrats tend to quickly pull the trigger for transgressions that pale in comparison to what Trump and his minions get away with. Given some time after the Franken allegations arose, cooler heads might have prevailed. I’m not at all defending what he did. It was dumb. He apologized. And his juvenile stunt didn’t threaten democracy, cause rioters to storm the US Capitol, pay off a porn star, or try to overturn an election.
Come on folks…this election is about Trump, not Biden’s performance in a debate. Americans elect an administration, not just a candidate. If Trump is elected he won’t be running the country - it will be advisors like Steven Miller (the guy who locked the children of immigrants in cages) and Steve Bannon (who has warned “blood will flow” for those who have opposed Trump). The right wing Heritage Fnd (Project 2025) leaders have said “there will be a revolution and it will only be ‘bloodless’ if the right wins. Is that the kind of administration you want leading your country?
Sorry. I have to disagree with you. People are not tuned in to politics these days. They don’t start paying attention to an election until after Labor Day. What does that tell you? Biden appeared in front of 50 MILLION people last Thursday. There is no way in hell he is going to change enough peoples’ minds to win this election. Twelve people I’ve talked to have said they will either vote libertarian or for Trump. He looked frail, he sounded frail, he walked shakily to the podium. His policies and good deeds do not matter. Politics is all about perception, and he failed miserably on that score when it counted the most.
It's not so easy to just change candidates, mid-stream, when caucuses have already happened and people have already made their preferences known. It's also disheartening to hear Democrats beat the drum beat of "he should step down!" when Republicans are perfectly happy to line up behind their sociopathic, narcissistic, pedophile, convicted felon rapist, without NY Times think pieces calling for HIM to step away.
They are not “Republicans” anymore. They are the new Freedom Caucus - a bunch of extreme fascist, racist, sexist and evangelical/Catholic culture-oriented groups or they are interested in preserving their money for their progeny. We don’t have titles in this country, but believe me, there are people who have 5 homes, travel the world, buy luxury goods and they are NOT going to give up their lifestyle.
Considering that he's the only person to have defeated TFG and, from what I understand, it didn't go well the last time a presidential candidate was nominated at the convention, I think we all need to put our faith in him and work our hardest to get him re-elected!
1. Will Joe Biden be succeeded by Kamala Harris if he dies or becomes incapacitated? Yes.
2. Is Harris ten times a better candidate than Trump? Yes.
3. Is Harris a better candidate than whatever stooge Trump will install as his vice presidential candidate? Yes.
Then what are we talking about here?
Democrats have the advantage of having an incumbent president who has accomplished much during his four years. The minute Biden quits, Trump and Republicans will crow that they made Biden and his wimp Democrats quit. Is that why people want?
Despite the delusions of Republicans cult of personality, this is no longer a contest between Biden and Trump, or really any normal political campaign. This is a choice between the Democrats who want to preserve democracy and serve the people’s needs and the Republicans who want to be kings and rule over people without restraint. All other considerations are irrelevant.
I feel one bad debate doesn’t undo all the good he and his administration have done. It’s my understanding that any campaign funds from his campaign could only go to Kamala. A new candidate would have to start over. It’s a bit late in the game for that, in my opinion. A younger vibrant candidate would have been great, about a year or two ago. Yes, Biden is showing his age, but I agree with him when he says he knows how to be president. He has good people to support him. I didn’t watch the debate either, because I knew it would be a 💩 show.
Of course Nate Silver also predicted, with a high level of probability, that Clinton would win the 2016 election against the (not yet then) convicted felon.
My knee-jerk response after the debate was that Biden should step down as a candidate. My main goal is that Donald Trump be defeated. I wish there were some way to measure how we would most likely defeat Donald Trump.
Happy Fourth to Robert Leonard!! Thanks Bob for setting up this thread. Not quite like writing the Declaration of Independence, but seems like beating back King Trump is equally important.
The longer Democrats stick to the sing-song "when they go low, we go high, " and "vote harder" nonsense, the deeper the hole gets for us.
For those saying that Biden was the voter's choice in the primary as a reason to keep him the race, I'd point out that for all intents and purposes, we didn't have another option to choose. Sure, Phillips was on some ballots, but once the DNC decided who they were gonna run, that was that. No debates, no nothing.
Biden's cabinet is top-notch. I'm an infrastructure guy, and for me, this has been the best admin in my adult life. By most metrics, Biden's time in office has been good for America (in general).
But no election has ever been won on rational analysis or wonky talking points. The sooner we (the left) figure that out, the better.
Is it a risk to change things up now? You bet. And it's exactly the risk the Dems need to take to inject some life back into this fight.
My concerns are not whether Joe Biden can do the job of President. He’s proven he can and can do it well.
My concern is his ability to do the job of candidate for President. What last Thursday’s performance and the subsequent *week* of non-action by this candidate to show voters that was a 90 minute aberration showed me is that an honest conversation needs to take place and it needs to happen now.
If it’s Joe, I’m with him all the way. Donald Trump and the people he will install in our government will fundamentally change how our country operates. This is bigger than one man.
Week of in-action? Have you seen Biden's rally in North Carolina the day after the debate? Check it out on youtube. Biden was on fire! Smooth, agressive, calling out the Trumpsters. If only his debate had gone that well, we would not be having this conversation. I gree with you comletely that Biden can get the job done in office.
That’s great for the few hundred in North Carolina who attended. For the 50+ million who watched the debate and will never take the limited free time they have to watch a political rally on YouTube (if you can find it because the Biden campaign doesn’t even have the rally on its YouTube page), they need to see him at his best and they aren’t.
Too late in the process. Democrats should have done the work over the years to develop new candidates. Our chances of winning were marginal to begin with but now all the chatter will only make things worse. Go with Joe and should we lose, start the long process of rebuilding the Democratic Party. Democrats did this to themselves, myself included.
What was the ulterior motive/plan of Democrat controllers to have Biden look so pale? Come on, we know what professional makeup people can do. Something doesn't make sense to me.
The issue is to win in Novembe if not win the House, retain the Senate, and make progress on statehouse races.. However, writers after they comment on Biden, omit any mention. We need to promote down-ballot issues and candidates. Both 'Biden must go' and 'Biden forever' sides continue this omission.
Biden's team could also help out. Biden's team needs to add or change staff who are better chess players. Biden's team should have already considered this possibility of Biden being unable to run for whatever reason, or that Biden would continue to exhibit problems and have plans in place to prevent and respond while remaining on the ballot .. The debate has dramatized and accelerated the absent contingency plans.
Take for example, the issue of VP Harris being unable to be replaced. That is one option. If Biden steps aside, there are multiple options, including: elevating her to Prez; keeping her as VP (and securing commitment from Biden's replacement to do so); offer a new slate, with commitment to have a woman and POC on the slate; or others. Just as the media is asking Biden to step down for the good of the country, VP Harris could be approached to remove her name from consideration as Prez
There is always the option of an open convention, which would be great for the media, but not for the country. My first legislative race went to a convention. In my case, people united in a three candidate convention. If it goes to convention, I do not see any planning for unification, use of the convention to educate the public on the Trump Court, and other matters.
Maybe you could explain your fears about an open convention? If President Biden were to give clear direction as to which candidates his delegates were to adopt, are you assuming it would just be a free for all, slugfest? And if so, how could we be any worse off?
Demo leaders should be planning on a convention where both a Prez and VP will need to be nominated; it can be somewhat orchestrated, if Biden and Harris approve this ticket change and recognize it will be for the best of our America.
I am concerned that the current undisciplined efforts of party leaders will not be helpful in any kind of convention. If the same people who 'prepped' the President on the debate, who have mismanaged messaging for several years, and who have failed to plan for such a health event, since 2020...if those same staff and consultants are around for the fall, we will lose. However, there are federal and state campaigns. I will continue to push for state and regional groups to take the lead in saving the democracy, not wait for the convention.
This situation strikes me as a "Monty Hall problem"—a situation where switching to another choice significantly improves your chance of winning, over staying with your initial choice. (The logic is solid, yet it regularly eluded contestants on "Let's Make a Deal.”)
In the case of Biden, switching will steal news cycles from Trump for months, give the new candidate a chance at voters disillusioned with Biden's Gaza policies (hello Michigan), pull the rug out from Trump's (and the entire GOP’s) anti-Biden campaign. Switching will give us a candidate who can hammer away at Trump's corruption, bigotry, misogyny, racism, fascism, nepotism, ignorance, idiocy and mental decline (which Biden lacks the capacity or willingness to do), a candidate better able to sound the alarm about the plight of reproductive rights and the danger of the current Supreme Court.
This isn't about loyalty to Joe, it's about beating Trump and preserving democracy. This isn’t about "norms” or “staying the course”; we've never seen a situation or trajectory like this (comparisons to LBJ in '68 are ridiculously off; every congressional Democrat is currently outpolling Biden). The Biden admin is currently gaslighting desperately, trying to hold the base with familiar appeals. But it's swing voters who are critical, and they are not swayed by appeals to policy, let alone the dangers of fascism (as insane as that may be). Biden is sinking in the polls daily, he’ll only get worse.
Switching greatly improves the odds of beating Trump. Democrats must switch.
I watched the whole thing. It was awful, on both sides, in very different ways. But as others have said, the GOP didn't respond by dumping Trump, who lied with gusto just like he always does. I'm dismayed at how quickly the Dems have let national media and MAGA frame the debate, and how willing leadership is to join the chorus instead of focusing on the lies, and sticking to their message ( which someone should have reminded Biden in debate prep is debate lesson 101.) The handwringing and freaking out don't bode well for the prospect of an open convention, and I don't have much confidence that the Dem party leadership is going to do a better job of choosing a last minute 'savior' than they have done finding a campaign strategy and sticking to it. I will vote for whoever the Dems run, but there is no ideal candidate any more, and we will need to fight harder than we ever have to turn out voters no matter who the candidate is.
I don’t think it’s a “Why should we do it if they don’t because their candidate is worse?“ kind of question. If Joe is our candidate, I will campaign for him and vote for him. I also don’t think it’s an issue of a “bad night.” I thought he was very clearly confused. Had I not seen it, I wouldn’t have believed it, but I did see it. The question for me is twofold and painful because I adore him. Can he beat Trump? Is he healthy enough to be President?
Biden is frail and should've never been on the ticket this time around. The republican party has been hijacked by Trumplicans. There were other choices, and they still went with Trump. It's a cult of personality, albeit a hideous personality. His core supporters are the uneducated and those with plenty who love to hang onto their plenty. Their chief concerns are immigrants and the economy (as if a president causes inflation). The stock market is at an all-time high and has done better under Biden than Trump. They don't want to hear that. Misogyny and racism is a sickening undercurrent in many Trumplicans. People want to deny that, but it is a factor. Does a young man truly care about a woman's right to body autonomy? Nah, that's way down their list.
I like Biden but I don’t think he is the right person for the job anymore. I have no idea who would be best to replace him. Kamala Harris would make a good president, in my opinion, but not sure she could win over Trump in an election because of her gender. Even among the sexist, old-school Democrats there would be a pushback . We need someone young to lead our country again. We need new faces and new ideas; not saggy jowls and old rhetoric.
THe fact we have no idea who should run in place of Biden just shows the Dems have not done a good job of "building the bench". The coach of any sports team will tell you how important it is to keep building up new players so they are ready when called upon.
I think Harris would be good if she was paired with someone like John Feterman. She is very calm and sensible so someone less calm would add some excitement to the ticket. But that is what pairs her so well with Biden.
The party needs to change their mindset regarding VPs (and it is the party that chooses, not the candidate). For too many years both parties have named VPs who are wishy-washy (Harris and Biden excluded) and making their position a “go to in an emergency” one. The VP should be given responsibilities that put them in the center of things; real jobs with lots of public exposure. VPs are told not to overshadow the president, always agree with the president, don’t be outspoken, etc. That needs to change. I think Harris can be that change. And wouldn’t it be terrible if we got women in both roles this year…no it would not!
How does one describe the hysteria coming from the old rich white men and mainstream media calling for Joe Biden to walk away from his campaign?? I know that I, (a privileged white American baby boomer, lifelong Democratic voter and survivor of bullies all my life) am offended how quickly the D’s can turn their back on such a good President and all around sweet guy like Joe Biden after one bad performance. I think like Taylor Swift sings 🎶You need to calm down 🎶. Stop reacting and instead, respond by doubling down on your support for Biden. The hysteria is negative, devisive and destructive and triggering. We were shell-shocked on the daily when Trump was in the office. Where are the calls for HIM to step away from his campaign? Stop with the self- sabotage and get to work assuring we will have a good man as POTUS. Thank you
There is a lot of magical thinking in these scenarios. If Biden steps aside, the only realistic alternative is Harris. I am coming around to the idea that maybe Democrats should roll the dice on Harris. But most people in the dump Biden crowd seem to think Harris can be passed over for someone more electable. It's not going to happen.
Not passed over, just included in the roster of people who are “selected” to run. Yes, I hate that word, too. Smells like cigar smoke. But that’s where we are 4 months out from the most important election of my lifetime (and I’ve been around for awhile!)
Agree unlikely to happen—campaign cash restrictions alone grease her skids—but she would lose. Recall, three-fourths of voters don’t want Trump or Biden/Harris. Put up Whitmer, Booker, Klobuchar, etc. and grant them their wish.
Trump Widens Lead After Biden’s Debate Debacle, Times/Siena Poll Finds - and it’s only going to get worse. He can’t undo the damage that was done in front of 50 million viewers. He will lose, so open it up to the “top 5” candidates agreed to by Democratic Party rep, Schumer, Jeffries, friendly media types, Obama, Clintons and Biden. Avoid Newsom for the reasons outlined by one of the commenters above. Whitmer, Klobuchar, Harris. Shapiro too new, but I do like him.
It’s not about the past or past accomplishments—it’s about the future and churning domestic and international turmoil. The leader of the free world cannot have even one bad night and JB’s future promises more and more of them.
Donald Trump is on course to win and after the debate to win big and down ballot if Biden (or Harris!) leads the ticket.
Remember: three-fourths the voting population does not want either—offer up another and give them a chance to turn down Trump.
He's had more accomplishments in science and medicine than past presidents. He's put some nasty chemicals on the EPA ban list, including some that were put in our food. I realize that this doesn't impress the average voter much but to me it indicates that his thinking is sound. He did a great job tackling inflation, too. The GOP will lie about any candidate, young or old. I recall the Dean Scream and how people who were in the audience said it never happened. The sound got messed with to make him seem worse, as if the news needed a story. Then there was the cheating/fighting at a caucus in Des Moines. It was my sister's caucus and she said it never happened. Another story in search of an audience. I didn't watch the debate. I'd like to stick with him. I might change my mind if the replacement is Gretchen Whitmer.
If all the talking heads and establishment people were putting their energy into talking about all of the lies 45 told on that stage, all of the crimes he has committed, all of shameful things in his past, AND all of the accomplishments this administration and Biden have under their belts instead of dwelling on a 90 minute performance from someone recovering from a cold. We would be in much better shape. It just seems ridiculous. I’m not crazy about Biden. But I’m terrified of the alternative at this point. Especially with SCOTUS in his pocket now. SO it is not the time to be divided.
I think Biden should step down from the Presidency. He should use the phrase “for the good of the country” as much as possible. Harris will take the oath of office and select a running mate. Hopefully she transparently consults with Biden and Obama, and they reflect on the good that their administrations have done. Harris would hopefully select a male midwestern VP to balance the ticket. Reduce the drama. Get a younger candidate on the ticket. Challenge Trump campaign. Talk about abortion rights and the Supreme Court. Pete Buttigieg has been great when he talks about the Supreme Court. Note how much impact GOP Presidents have had via the Supreme Court, will winning one nationwide popular vote the past 30ish years.
I meet with college buddies annually. Lots of them voted for Trump, then Biden. They, to a person, say Biden is too old. They intend on voting for Trump because Biden is too old. Would they vote for a woman? I doubt it. BUT, there are younger voters who are looking at these two old farts (they are, especially via a 20-something’s eyes) and completely disappointed in the 2 political parties. Give younger voters a reason to get into the voting booth.
Democrats are not in a good situation. Biden has been great President, but he is a poor candidate - as Claire McCaskill stated, he had ONE job in the debate, and failed MISERABLY. Most independents won’t make up their minds until Labor Day. If I am an independent voter, I really doubt I am casting a vote for Biden through 2028. You HAVE to think Harris will step in at some point. Let her run Joe, give her the reins. Hell you have earned retirement. Just run the clip of Harris questioning Bill Barr every day. Make the election about a cop/DOJ expert, v. a crime-committing, mobbed-up Putin/Xi dictator-loving expert. Who do you want to vote for? The cop or the criminal?
Independents and young voters are the key, I agree. Not sure President needs to resign, but certainly could hand reins of campaign to VP Harris and help select her running mate.
As of today’s Times / Siena national poll, Trump leads Biden by 8 points. Vermont and Minnesota are now in play. It has been more than 10 days since the debate; Biden has done no long form interviews or public unscripted events, only a brief appearance or two using a teleprompter. This isn’t a case of one bad night. Biden has been a terrific president but when 3/4 of the electorate believes he is too frail to serve, it must be acknowledged that Trump will defeat him. How the situation could be any worse with Kamala Harris or a popular governor leading the ticket is beyond me. At least we would have a candidate who can energetically prosecute the case against Trump.
Exactly. Dems were hoping for a judicial prosection of Trump. Not happening. The only path to victory is a political prosecution appealing to hearts, minds, and pocketbooks. Biden, bless him, is not up to it. He has said as much.
Two names I see a lot are Newsom and Harris. Newsom is Governor of California and former mayor of San Francisco. Harris was San Francisco DA. Her time there was not without controversy. I am sure the NY Times will rake over it if she is the nominee.
To democrats, they are shiny new objects. To republicans, they represent the king and queen of the California-as-liberal-hell-hole narrative. San Francisco and Los Angeles are the twin cities of hell.
Picture lots of video of homeless camps and lots of talk about high taxes.
California democrats are really only tested against other democrats. Success in California is not necessarily a predictor of success on the larger stage.
Harris did not do anything in the primaries, but she has been a hard worker on the trail. Maybe she could pull it off.
Further below are two comments I have made recently on Barry Piatt's site. I say this as someone who usually votes non-party or Independent if possible, Democratic when necessary, and Republican on occasion since our local races have always been between members of that Party. I consider the Republican Party to be a lost cause and will vote for nearly any Democrat other than the Kennedy who is off his rocker. Joe Biden must not lie to us at this point. He needs to go deep within himself and lead us without illusion....to supporting a different/winning team. He is not going to save the nation from Trump or MAGA-world I like Whitmer, Shapiro, Klobuchar, Raskin....some fresh candidates. Surely the President can help guide us at this point. I think campaigns in many nations last for just the summer and fall. There is no reason that the Democrats can't pull this off. And oh by the way, those who are cynical and think they cannot pick the lesser of two evils are not thinking. To fail to vote this fall would be a horrible mistake.
Jul 2
Liked by Barry Piatt
Not a time to panic, I agree. But neither is it time to follow a great leader over the cliff due to his own blindness to the optics/reality (take your pick). I have called Republicans “lemmings “ for years now. Democrats need not join those ranks! Those with influence need to get real and convince our President to choose a successor candidate. Now!
July 3
5 hrs ago
Today the President meets with Governors. This is his chance to move decisively and lead....lead by indicating what team should take the reins. He is clearly finished as a candidate. I’m no political analyst, but can feel it in my bones as a citizen. Trump must be defeated and Biden is not the one who can do so. If the Democratic Party would just get in gear, it has plenty of time to win. But this good honorable patriotic President must first act. This mess is far worse than Watergate. A coverup of cognitive functioning cannot stand. Each hour that passes makes this worse.
Known quantities. They ran before. Black vote, women's vote, East Coast, Midwest, Corey knows farming. His Farmer's Union panel presentation was outstanding. Rhodes Scholar, Oxford etc. Amy--smart, tough, serious. Love to see her take on Trump. I don't think the U.S. is more racist than when Obama ran. The racist have just been encouraged, manipulated and put on stage by Trump's strategists--Bannon etc.
Zogby’s idea is a good idea. Until it isn’t. What if Kamala doesn’t get the nod. Will a substantial number of blacks stay home and not vote? Will people become so “invested” in their own candidate that they refuse to accept whoever IS nominated? There was the 1960 convention, sure, but there was also the 1968 convention. Let’s ask Heather Cox Richardson for her thoughts!
I agree, JD. I will vote for any warm body against DT (I held my nose voting for both Clinton and Biden but … what else are ya gonna do?). Biden’s debate performance was stunningly bad, but the handwringing by the party over replacing him on the ticket now is truly embarrassing. I’m so fkg tired of party officials fkg this all up over and over and over again.
I don't know. I am not at all connected with the DNC. But I am friends with the Scott County Dems. I am encouraging her to support the Zogby proposal. I will also write Rita Hart. Not that Iowa makes much difference to any Dem in the Electoral College now. But who knows? This could be the spark we need to recoup the 2008 primary!
I'm not one who cares what Biden decides to do. He and his party should lose bigly for all the calumny they've aimed at our president – Donald Trump – and his voters and backers.
After reviewing the news today about the President’s halting and confused interviews and appearances, I am even more saddened. Can he see the light long enough to make the decision to step aside? Should he even be the Commander in Chief at this time? This is beyond a discussion of the campaign. As citizens we must demand straight talk from his circle. I’m sure a number of the Democratic governors are extremely concerned.
Democrats need to also consider the impact of the top of the ballot choice for everyone running down the ballot. If you alienate voters who then stay away, those lower ballot choices are hurt too. I understand the focus on the top, but there are critical lower ballot choices across the country. The universal cause is hammering on the dangers of Trump. His loyal base won’t change but we’ve got to get all other voters.
You have a good point about people not taking the time to look the rally up. I just went to Youtube and there were at least 8 clips or whole videos. It is out there if people look and it shows him campaigning very well. I agree with you- if it is Biden vs Trump, I am with Biden all the way.
It will take thinking way outside the box to defeat Trump. If it takes some less than calm and magical thinking to get there.....so be it. Staying the course is a sure path to losing to MAGA big. I thought all this before the debate. In fact didn’t watch the debate.
The primary thing I need to see is the most recent polling now and in the next week or two. If the data demonstrates that Biden's support is significantly wavering (which I posit likely isn't) versus Trump, then it's best he stay as candidate. However, if polling starts to trend away from Biden, Kamala Harris is a realistic step-in due to her experience in the Biden White House and also her representing the commitments Biden made to black voters. Further, Biden pulling out of the race and then the DNP turning its back on Harris would be a significantly alienating move that would be hard to survive, imo.
Gavan Newsom has the name recognition to potentially beat Trump. The only other potentials well-known enough are already unliked, and months isn't long enough to resuscitate a political career that's no longer breathing.
The Democratic National Convention is August 19th-22nd. Early voting in Iowa will begin October 15th. I don’t know how that plays in other states. So, in Iowa a candidate has less than 60 days to mount a successful campaign to get out the vote. Impossible. In other states that time frame may be somewhere around approximately 75 days. I am sticking with Joe. It is our best shot.
Yes, Biden's performance was a disaster but a lot of the things his administration has done since he took office are overlooked as they do not create the excitement that Trump's nonsense does. There are a lot of people who do not seem to recognize that another Trump victory could very well destroy our country. As far as age goes and mental acuity goes I'm not sure Trump's mind is working well enough to be able to satisfy those who hope to use him to destroy our democracy.
It is precisely because Trump is so dangerous and reckless that our great President needs to direct us toward a team that can beat Trump. This is not about the record Biden has made….but rather about the future. And I dread to think how DT’s mind works!
I’m incredulous that people believe that the Biden administration over the past 3.5 yrs has done a “great job”. Their accomplishments tend to be money give aways and huge spending programs. Of course people love free stuff regardless of the efficacy. How about real single payer national healthcare? Maybe some real attention to conservation and the environment? Maybe a real effort on immigration reform? Nah…too hard and people don’t love the idea of maybe having to spend some more money to shore up the country.
Oh sure. And Trump gave the wealthy $2 TRILLION in tax cuts which gave us the worst deficit EVER! Of course he and his family members received lots of “moolah” from the tax cuts. Read Moody’s analysis of what another Trump presidency will do to the economy.
What does Trump have to do with the last 3.5 yrs? He doesn't get a vote. There are approximately 70 moderate/compromise Republicans in the house that the Democrats could work with to introduce meaningful, constructive legislation. From what I could tell, there were no attempts to introduce such legislation in the past 3.5 yrs...all fluff and charity.
I find it instructive that the Democrats are the only party talking about ditching their candidate. It seems to me that the GOP should be having this conversation because their candidate is a convicted felon and found guilty of sexual assault. Wow! Whose candidate should actually resign? It ain't Biden.
The GOP is not the GOP anymore. It is the party of the Freedom Caucus, I.e., Trump’s fascist, authoritarian party.
FreeDUMB caucus.
For better or worse, the GOP are masters at staying on brand/on message.
Biden should absolutely step down. He’s lost the trust of many allies who never picked him as their first choice. He was handed the nomination to stop Bernie Sanders, so it’s not surprising that the establishment is dragging its feet. I’m not sure Trump can be stopped at this point, so why not take the risk on younger talent? It’s a serious risk to do nothing. My fear however is that his replacement would be a NY /CA favorite and not someone like Klobuchar or Sherrod Brown who could actually reach GOP voters who would love an alternative.
If you want Biden to step down, the only realistic alternative is Harris. It's not tenable to pass over the Black VP for some white politician and anyone other than Harris would have to start from scratch with no access to campaign funds or infrastructure.
Fair point, but I remember Harris as a candidate, and I don’t see her chances of beating Trump as better than Biden’s. So that would be purely a symbolic choice at this point.
This is why the admittedly imperfect polling data is really important information to consider. At this point it's really not about any one particular candidate, it's about ensuring Trump doesn't win. ie, selecting the candidate most likely to win, and that still might be Joe Biden. I know that feels shortsighted re: policies, etc but that's my reality currently
I don't see Harris winning. She's too vague. I maintain had a man been running against Trump versus Hillary, we wouldn't have had the initial disaster in 2016. I had a sinking feeling at the time there were many older, male Democrats unwilling to vote for Clinton. But they would've voted for a man. The Democrat talent pool is weak. I will throw out something bold, Jon Stewart would have a better chance beating Trump than Harris. Another non politician, a breath of fresh air and funny to boot.
And a Midwestern candidate would make sense.
The establishment Democratic Party needs to wake up, yes!
But Biden was chosen by primary, not the party.
Right — nothing simple about this. I’ve seen Democrats get bogged down in their complicated rules forever. That’s worrisome for sure. In fact I was glad to see Iowa’s caucuses bite the dust. People got tangled up
In knots reading rules at local level. Republicans just choose candidates and go home. Judging from this thread, I see nothing but a Trump victory, which makes me ill.
I’m going to be honest, I did not watch the debate. Most of what I heard about it came from secondhand sources. I’ve been on vacation for the past week, but what I can tell was that this past week has been an important week for politics between the debate, the Supreme Court ruling, and whatnot. And all this political turmoil has been honestly freaking me out.
I turn 17 in August. I won’t be able to vote. With that in mind, along with the fact that I don’t know enough about Biden to make a proper opinion, I am fairly indifferent about whether he steps down or not. What I’m concerned with is the current state of the Republican Party. The more I hear about what they’re doing, the more I fear for our democracy.
I can’t say much about whether or not Biden should step down. What I do urge those who can vote, though, is to vote for our democracy. I know Biden’s a hot topic right now, but you know who should be more? Trump. A convicted felon who’s become a mob boss of an entire political party. Our country cannot afford another four years under him or anyone like him.
I don’t care whether Biden steps down or not. What I care about is keeping our democracy intact. Our future. If that means Biden has to step down and a younger person takes his place, I’m all for it. If it means Biden continues running like normal, so be it. Our democracy is in danger. I hope whatever decision that is ultimately made about Biden is the right one for our democracy.
K.L. is an important voice. As you can see, he is thoughtful and knowledgeable. Please consider subscribing to his substack, and if you can afford it, please consider being a paid subscriber. I am, and love what he is writing. https://kyorion.substack.com/
I sincerely hope you have a chance to vote in 2028. (And, of course, every local and state election up until that time.)
This is what makes the Democrats so very weak. It is more than disturbing that many are forgetting the remarkable accomplishments President Biden has done over the past 3.5 years and focusing on a 90 minute performance. There has not been a better president in my lifetime and I'm sticking with Joe all the way.
Good point, Michael. I recall how we threw Al Franken out so quickly and now that looks like a big mistake. When are Republicans going to step up and toss out their truly reprehensible candidate?
No question Biden’s fitness for office is a legitimate question. It was much worse than just “a bad night”.
Trump is dangerous. If Republicans won’t reject him then why should D’s reject Biden? Sad for our country but two can play this game.
It’s not the point of this thread but I gotta point out that Tina Smith has been a great Senator for Minnesota. Hardly “a mistake.”
Sure, I get it. But I didn’t say she was a mistake. In retrospect, Democrats tend to quickly pull the trigger for transgressions that pale in comparison to what Trump and his minions get away with. Given some time after the Franken allegations arose, cooler heads might have prevailed. I’m not at all defending what he did. It was dumb. He apologized. And his juvenile stunt didn’t threaten democracy, cause rioters to storm the US Capitol, pay off a porn star, or try to overturn an election.
I misread your comment, my apologies!
Come on folks…this election is about Trump, not Biden’s performance in a debate. Americans elect an administration, not just a candidate. If Trump is elected he won’t be running the country - it will be advisors like Steven Miller (the guy who locked the children of immigrants in cages) and Steve Bannon (who has warned “blood will flow” for those who have opposed Trump). The right wing Heritage Fnd (Project 2025) leaders have said “there will be a revolution and it will only be ‘bloodless’ if the right wins. Is that the kind of administration you want leading your country?
Ultimately Trump is simply a hood ornament for the Project 2025 crowd.
Sorry. I have to disagree with you. People are not tuned in to politics these days. They don’t start paying attention to an election until after Labor Day. What does that tell you? Biden appeared in front of 50 MILLION people last Thursday. There is no way in hell he is going to change enough peoples’ minds to win this election. Twelve people I’ve talked to have said they will either vote libertarian or for Trump. He looked frail, he sounded frail, he walked shakily to the podium. His policies and good deeds do not matter. Politics is all about perception, and he failed miserably on that score when it counted the most.
It's not so easy to just change candidates, mid-stream, when caucuses have already happened and people have already made their preferences known. It's also disheartening to hear Democrats beat the drum beat of "he should step down!" when Republicans are perfectly happy to line up behind their sociopathic, narcissistic, pedophile, convicted felon rapist, without NY Times think pieces calling for HIM to step away.
They are not “Republicans” anymore. They are the new Freedom Caucus - a bunch of extreme fascist, racist, sexist and evangelical/Catholic culture-oriented groups or they are interested in preserving their money for their progeny. We don’t have titles in this country, but believe me, there are people who have 5 homes, travel the world, buy luxury goods and they are NOT going to give up their lifestyle.
Considering that he's the only person to have defeated TFG and, from what I understand, it didn't go well the last time a presidential candidate was nominated at the convention, I think we all need to put our faith in him and work our hardest to get him re-elected!
So ... I gotta admit that I was genuinely scared when he stepped down but my opinion and optimism has greatly changed! Harris/Walz is the real deal!!
1. Will Joe Biden be succeeded by Kamala Harris if he dies or becomes incapacitated? Yes.
2. Is Harris ten times a better candidate than Trump? Yes.
3. Is Harris a better candidate than whatever stooge Trump will install as his vice presidential candidate? Yes.
Then what are we talking about here?
Democrats have the advantage of having an incumbent president who has accomplished much during his four years. The minute Biden quits, Trump and Republicans will crow that they made Biden and his wimp Democrats quit. Is that why people want?
Despite the delusions of Republicans cult of personality, this is no longer a contest between Biden and Trump, or really any normal political campaign. This is a choice between the Democrats who want to preserve democracy and serve the people’s needs and the Republicans who want to be kings and rule over people without restraint. All other considerations are irrelevant.
I feel one bad debate doesn’t undo all the good he and his administration have done. It’s my understanding that any campaign funds from his campaign could only go to Kamala. A new candidate would have to start over. It’s a bit late in the game for that, in my opinion. A younger vibrant candidate would have been great, about a year or two ago. Yes, Biden is showing his age, but I agree with him when he says he knows how to be president. He has good people to support him. I didn’t watch the debate either, because I knew it would be a 💩 show.
Nate Silver opines that an alternative D candidate other than Biden (including Harris) would do better against Trump than Joe would.
That seems a bold prediction to me.
Ultimately defeating the convicted felon is the most important factor. We cannot afford to screw this up.
Of course Nate Silver also predicted, with a high level of probability, that Clinton would win the 2016 election against the (not yet then) convicted felon.
My knee-jerk response after the debate was that Biden should step down as a candidate. My main goal is that Donald Trump be defeated. I wish there were some way to measure how we would most likely defeat Donald Trump.
Happy Fourth to Robert Leonard!! Thanks Bob for setting up this thread. Not quite like writing the Declaration of Independence, but seems like beating back King Trump is equally important.
The longer Democrats stick to the sing-song "when they go low, we go high, " and "vote harder" nonsense, the deeper the hole gets for us.
For those saying that Biden was the voter's choice in the primary as a reason to keep him the race, I'd point out that for all intents and purposes, we didn't have another option to choose. Sure, Phillips was on some ballots, but once the DNC decided who they were gonna run, that was that. No debates, no nothing.
Biden's cabinet is top-notch. I'm an infrastructure guy, and for me, this has been the best admin in my adult life. By most metrics, Biden's time in office has been good for America (in general).
But no election has ever been won on rational analysis or wonky talking points. The sooner we (the left) figure that out, the better.
Is it a risk to change things up now? You bet. And it's exactly the risk the Dems need to take to inject some life back into this fight.
My concerns are not whether Joe Biden can do the job of President. He’s proven he can and can do it well.
My concern is his ability to do the job of candidate for President. What last Thursday’s performance and the subsequent *week* of non-action by this candidate to show voters that was a 90 minute aberration showed me is that an honest conversation needs to take place and it needs to happen now.
If it’s Joe, I’m with him all the way. Donald Trump and the people he will install in our government will fundamentally change how our country operates. This is bigger than one man.
Week of in-action? Have you seen Biden's rally in North Carolina the day after the debate? Check it out on youtube. Biden was on fire! Smooth, agressive, calling out the Trumpsters. If only his debate had gone that well, we would not be having this conversation. I gree with you comletely that Biden can get the job done in office.
That’s great for the few hundred in North Carolina who attended. For the 50+ million who watched the debate and will never take the limited free time they have to watch a political rally on YouTube (if you can find it because the Biden campaign doesn’t even have the rally on its YouTube page), they need to see him at his best and they aren’t.
That was then. This is now. 😬
I watched the debate and think that Joe should vacate immediately and follow Tom Friedman's advice, which is the best I have seen.
Too late in the process. Democrats should have done the work over the years to develop new candidates. Our chances of winning were marginal to begin with but now all the chatter will only make things worse. Go with Joe and should we lose, start the long process of rebuilding the Democratic Party. Democrats did this to themselves, myself included.
What was the ulterior motive/plan of Democrat controllers to have Biden look so pale? Come on, we know what professional makeup people can do. Something doesn't make sense to me.
The issue is to win in Novembe if not win the House, retain the Senate, and make progress on statehouse races.. However, writers after they comment on Biden, omit any mention. We need to promote down-ballot issues and candidates. Both 'Biden must go' and 'Biden forever' sides continue this omission.
Biden's team could also help out. Biden's team needs to add or change staff who are better chess players. Biden's team should have already considered this possibility of Biden being unable to run for whatever reason, or that Biden would continue to exhibit problems and have plans in place to prevent and respond while remaining on the ballot .. The debate has dramatized and accelerated the absent contingency plans.
Take for example, the issue of VP Harris being unable to be replaced. That is one option. If Biden steps aside, there are multiple options, including: elevating her to Prez; keeping her as VP (and securing commitment from Biden's replacement to do so); offer a new slate, with commitment to have a woman and POC on the slate; or others. Just as the media is asking Biden to step down for the good of the country, VP Harris could be approached to remove her name from consideration as Prez
There is always the option of an open convention, which would be great for the media, but not for the country. My first legislative race went to a convention. In my case, people united in a three candidate convention. If it goes to convention, I do not see any planning for unification, use of the convention to educate the public on the Trump Court, and other matters.
Good comments.
Maybe you could explain your fears about an open convention? If President Biden were to give clear direction as to which candidates his delegates were to adopt, are you assuming it would just be a free for all, slugfest? And if so, how could we be any worse off?
I have shifted my beliefs on a convention in my substack today..
https://open.substack.com/pub/ralphrosenberg/p/3-dissents-and-4-constructive-solutions?r=9e9e3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Demo leaders should be planning on a convention where both a Prez and VP will need to be nominated; it can be somewhat orchestrated, if Biden and Harris approve this ticket change and recognize it will be for the best of our America.
I am concerned that the current undisciplined efforts of party leaders will not be helpful in any kind of convention. If the same people who 'prepped' the President on the debate, who have mismanaged messaging for several years, and who have failed to plan for such a health event, since 2020...if those same staff and consultants are around for the fall, we will lose. However, there are federal and state campaigns. I will continue to push for state and regional groups to take the lead in saving the democracy, not wait for the convention.
Thank you for clarifying. That all makes sense.
This situation strikes me as a "Monty Hall problem"—a situation where switching to another choice significantly improves your chance of winning, over staying with your initial choice. (The logic is solid, yet it regularly eluded contestants on "Let's Make a Deal.”)
In the case of Biden, switching will steal news cycles from Trump for months, give the new candidate a chance at voters disillusioned with Biden's Gaza policies (hello Michigan), pull the rug out from Trump's (and the entire GOP’s) anti-Biden campaign. Switching will give us a candidate who can hammer away at Trump's corruption, bigotry, misogyny, racism, fascism, nepotism, ignorance, idiocy and mental decline (which Biden lacks the capacity or willingness to do), a candidate better able to sound the alarm about the plight of reproductive rights and the danger of the current Supreme Court.
This isn't about loyalty to Joe, it's about beating Trump and preserving democracy. This isn’t about "norms” or “staying the course”; we've never seen a situation or trajectory like this (comparisons to LBJ in '68 are ridiculously off; every congressional Democrat is currently outpolling Biden). The Biden admin is currently gaslighting desperately, trying to hold the base with familiar appeals. But it's swing voters who are critical, and they are not swayed by appeals to policy, let alone the dangers of fascism (as insane as that may be). Biden is sinking in the polls daily, he’ll only get worse.
Switching greatly improves the odds of beating Trump. Democrats must switch.
Well that’s a good point too - if it’s possible. I’d love to be excited about someone instead of resigned.
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!
I watched the whole thing. It was awful, on both sides, in very different ways. But as others have said, the GOP didn't respond by dumping Trump, who lied with gusto just like he always does. I'm dismayed at how quickly the Dems have let national media and MAGA frame the debate, and how willing leadership is to join the chorus instead of focusing on the lies, and sticking to their message ( which someone should have reminded Biden in debate prep is debate lesson 101.) The handwringing and freaking out don't bode well for the prospect of an open convention, and I don't have much confidence that the Dem party leadership is going to do a better job of choosing a last minute 'savior' than they have done finding a campaign strategy and sticking to it. I will vote for whoever the Dems run, but there is no ideal candidate any more, and we will need to fight harder than we ever have to turn out voters no matter who the candidate is.
I don’t think it’s a “Why should we do it if they don’t because their candidate is worse?“ kind of question. If Joe is our candidate, I will campaign for him and vote for him. I also don’t think it’s an issue of a “bad night.” I thought he was very clearly confused. Had I not seen it, I wouldn’t have believed it, but I did see it. The question for me is twofold and painful because I adore him. Can he beat Trump? Is he healthy enough to be President?
Biden is frail and should've never been on the ticket this time around. The republican party has been hijacked by Trumplicans. There were other choices, and they still went with Trump. It's a cult of personality, albeit a hideous personality. His core supporters are the uneducated and those with plenty who love to hang onto their plenty. Their chief concerns are immigrants and the economy (as if a president causes inflation). The stock market is at an all-time high and has done better under Biden than Trump. They don't want to hear that. Misogyny and racism is a sickening undercurrent in many Trumplicans. People want to deny that, but it is a factor. Does a young man truly care about a woman's right to body autonomy? Nah, that's way down their list.
I like Biden but I don’t think he is the right person for the job anymore. I have no idea who would be best to replace him. Kamala Harris would make a good president, in my opinion, but not sure she could win over Trump in an election because of her gender. Even among the sexist, old-school Democrats there would be a pushback . We need someone young to lead our country again. We need new faces and new ideas; not saggy jowls and old rhetoric.
THe fact we have no idea who should run in place of Biden just shows the Dems have not done a good job of "building the bench". The coach of any sports team will tell you how important it is to keep building up new players so they are ready when called upon.
I think Harris would be good if she was paired with someone like John Feterman. She is very calm and sensible so someone less calm would add some excitement to the ticket. But that is what pairs her so well with Biden.
The party needs to change their mindset regarding VPs (and it is the party that chooses, not the candidate). For too many years both parties have named VPs who are wishy-washy (Harris and Biden excluded) and making their position a “go to in an emergency” one. The VP should be given responsibilities that put them in the center of things; real jobs with lots of public exposure. VPs are told not to overshadow the president, always agree with the president, don’t be outspoken, etc. That needs to change. I think Harris can be that change. And wouldn’t it be terrible if we got women in both roles this year…no it would not!
Pete Buttigieg
How does one describe the hysteria coming from the old rich white men and mainstream media calling for Joe Biden to walk away from his campaign?? I know that I, (a privileged white American baby boomer, lifelong Democratic voter and survivor of bullies all my life) am offended how quickly the D’s can turn their back on such a good President and all around sweet guy like Joe Biden after one bad performance. I think like Taylor Swift sings 🎶You need to calm down 🎶. Stop reacting and instead, respond by doubling down on your support for Biden. The hysteria is negative, devisive and destructive and triggering. We were shell-shocked on the daily when Trump was in the office. Where are the calls for HIM to step away from his campaign? Stop with the self- sabotage and get to work assuring we will have a good man as POTUS. Thank you
There is a lot of magical thinking in these scenarios. If Biden steps aside, the only realistic alternative is Harris. I am coming around to the idea that maybe Democrats should roll the dice on Harris. But most people in the dump Biden crowd seem to think Harris can be passed over for someone more electable. It's not going to happen.
Not passed over, just included in the roster of people who are “selected” to run. Yes, I hate that word, too. Smells like cigar smoke. But that’s where we are 4 months out from the most important election of my lifetime (and I’ve been around for awhile!)
Agree unlikely to happen—campaign cash restrictions alone grease her skids—but she would lose. Recall, three-fourths of voters don’t want Trump or Biden/Harris. Put up Whitmer, Booker, Klobuchar, etc. and grant them their wish.
Trump Widens Lead After Biden’s Debate Debacle, Times/Siena Poll Finds - and it’s only going to get worse. He can’t undo the damage that was done in front of 50 million viewers. He will lose, so open it up to the “top 5” candidates agreed to by Democratic Party rep, Schumer, Jeffries, friendly media types, Obama, Clintons and Biden. Avoid Newsom for the reasons outlined by one of the commenters above. Whitmer, Klobuchar, Harris. Shapiro too new, but I do like him.
It’s not about the past or past accomplishments—it’s about the future and churning domestic and international turmoil. The leader of the free world cannot have even one bad night and JB’s future promises more and more of them.
Donald Trump is on course to win and after the debate to win big and down ballot if Biden (or Harris!) leads the ticket.
Remember: three-fourths the voting population does not want either—offer up another and give them a chance to turn down Trump.
He's had more accomplishments in science and medicine than past presidents. He's put some nasty chemicals on the EPA ban list, including some that were put in our food. I realize that this doesn't impress the average voter much but to me it indicates that his thinking is sound. He did a great job tackling inflation, too. The GOP will lie about any candidate, young or old. I recall the Dean Scream and how people who were in the audience said it never happened. The sound got messed with to make him seem worse, as if the news needed a story. Then there was the cheating/fighting at a caucus in Des Moines. It was my sister's caucus and she said it never happened. Another story in search of an audience. I didn't watch the debate. I'd like to stick with him. I might change my mind if the replacement is Gretchen Whitmer.
If all the talking heads and establishment people were putting their energy into talking about all of the lies 45 told on that stage, all of the crimes he has committed, all of shameful things in his past, AND all of the accomplishments this administration and Biden have under their belts instead of dwelling on a 90 minute performance from someone recovering from a cold. We would be in much better shape. It just seems ridiculous. I’m not crazy about Biden. But I’m terrified of the alternative at this point. Especially with SCOTUS in his pocket now. SO it is not the time to be divided.
Biden says it wasn’t a cold. He was just over scheduled. ???
I’m not liking the variety of explanations.
I think Biden should step down from the Presidency. He should use the phrase “for the good of the country” as much as possible. Harris will take the oath of office and select a running mate. Hopefully she transparently consults with Biden and Obama, and they reflect on the good that their administrations have done. Harris would hopefully select a male midwestern VP to balance the ticket. Reduce the drama. Get a younger candidate on the ticket. Challenge Trump campaign. Talk about abortion rights and the Supreme Court. Pete Buttigieg has been great when he talks about the Supreme Court. Note how much impact GOP Presidents have had via the Supreme Court, will winning one nationwide popular vote the past 30ish years.
I meet with college buddies annually. Lots of them voted for Trump, then Biden. They, to a person, say Biden is too old. They intend on voting for Trump because Biden is too old. Would they vote for a woman? I doubt it. BUT, there are younger voters who are looking at these two old farts (they are, especially via a 20-something’s eyes) and completely disappointed in the 2 political parties. Give younger voters a reason to get into the voting booth.
Democrats are not in a good situation. Biden has been great President, but he is a poor candidate - as Claire McCaskill stated, he had ONE job in the debate, and failed MISERABLY. Most independents won’t make up their minds until Labor Day. If I am an independent voter, I really doubt I am casting a vote for Biden through 2028. You HAVE to think Harris will step in at some point. Let her run Joe, give her the reins. Hell you have earned retirement. Just run the clip of Harris questioning Bill Barr every day. Make the election about a cop/DOJ expert, v. a crime-committing, mobbed-up Putin/Xi dictator-loving expert. Who do you want to vote for? The cop or the criminal?
I don’t think the VP gets to choose another VP should she ascend to the presidency. It’s in the Constitution. You must be ELECTED.
Independents and young voters are the key, I agree. Not sure President needs to resign, but certainly could hand reins of campaign to VP Harris and help select her running mate.
As of today’s Times / Siena national poll, Trump leads Biden by 8 points. Vermont and Minnesota are now in play. It has been more than 10 days since the debate; Biden has done no long form interviews or public unscripted events, only a brief appearance or two using a teleprompter. This isn’t a case of one bad night. Biden has been a terrific president but when 3/4 of the electorate believes he is too frail to serve, it must be acknowledged that Trump will defeat him. How the situation could be any worse with Kamala Harris or a popular governor leading the ticket is beyond me. At least we would have a candidate who can energetically prosecute the case against Trump.
Exactly. Dems were hoping for a judicial prosection of Trump. Not happening. The only path to victory is a political prosecution appealing to hearts, minds, and pocketbooks. Biden, bless him, is not up to it. He has said as much.
Two names I see a lot are Newsom and Harris. Newsom is Governor of California and former mayor of San Francisco. Harris was San Francisco DA. Her time there was not without controversy. I am sure the NY Times will rake over it if she is the nominee.
To democrats, they are shiny new objects. To republicans, they represent the king and queen of the California-as-liberal-hell-hole narrative. San Francisco and Los Angeles are the twin cities of hell.
Picture lots of video of homeless camps and lots of talk about high taxes.
California democrats are really only tested against other democrats. Success in California is not necessarily a predictor of success on the larger stage.
Harris did not do anything in the primaries, but she has been a hard worker on the trail. Maybe she could pull it off.
Further below are two comments I have made recently on Barry Piatt's site. I say this as someone who usually votes non-party or Independent if possible, Democratic when necessary, and Republican on occasion since our local races have always been between members of that Party. I consider the Republican Party to be a lost cause and will vote for nearly any Democrat other than the Kennedy who is off his rocker. Joe Biden must not lie to us at this point. He needs to go deep within himself and lead us without illusion....to supporting a different/winning team. He is not going to save the nation from Trump or MAGA-world I like Whitmer, Shapiro, Klobuchar, Raskin....some fresh candidates. Surely the President can help guide us at this point. I think campaigns in many nations last for just the summer and fall. There is no reason that the Democrats can't pull this off. And oh by the way, those who are cynical and think they cannot pick the lesser of two evils are not thinking. To fail to vote this fall would be a horrible mistake.
Jul 2
Liked by Barry Piatt
Not a time to panic, I agree. But neither is it time to follow a great leader over the cliff due to his own blindness to the optics/reality (take your pick). I have called Republicans “lemmings “ for years now. Democrats need not join those ranks! Those with influence need to get real and convince our President to choose a successor candidate. Now!
July 3
5 hrs ago
Today the President meets with Governors. This is his chance to move decisively and lead....lead by indicating what team should take the reins. He is clearly finished as a candidate. I’m no political analyst, but can feel it in my bones as a citizen. Trump must be defeated and Biden is not the one who can do so. If the Democratic Party would just get in gear, it has plenty of time to win. But this good honorable patriotic President must first act. This mess is far worse than Watergate. A coverup of cognitive functioning cannot stand. Each hour that passes makes this worse.
Read Michael Moore’s Substack. Thoughtful.
President Biden has been a good president overall, but the Democrats have to decide how to win. Trump cannot win. The country cannot elect dictator.
If he decides to step down I would like to see Corey Booker for president and Amy Klobuchar for vp.
Agreed!
Known quantities. They ran before. Black vote, women's vote, East Coast, Midwest, Corey knows farming. His Farmer's Union panel presentation was outstanding. Rhodes Scholar, Oxford etc. Amy--smart, tough, serious. Love to see her take on Trump. I don't think the U.S. is more racist than when Obama ran. The racist have just been encouraged, manipulated and put on stage by Trump's strategists--Bannon etc.
Or Amy as Pres., Corey as VP. Problem will be replacing the two Senators.
Needs to be a governor, we can’t risk senate seats.
Correct!
James Zogby, longtime DNC member has proposed a nominating process, that the Dems should have had months ago. https://youtu.be/-Vu39seLqIo?feature=shared
Zogby’s idea is a good idea. Until it isn’t. What if Kamala doesn’t get the nod. Will a substantial number of blacks stay home and not vote? Will people become so “invested” in their own candidate that they refuse to accept whoever IS nominated? There was the 1960 convention, sure, but there was also the 1968 convention. Let’s ask Heather Cox Richardson for her thoughts!
I doubt people will stay home if there is an alternative to Biden. Everyone knows the risk.
I agree, JD. I will vote for any warm body against DT (I held my nose voting for both Clinton and Biden but … what else are ya gonna do?). Biden’s debate performance was stunningly bad, but the handwringing by the party over replacing him on the ticket now is truly embarrassing. I’m so fkg tired of party officials fkg this all up over and over and over again.
Good idea to ask the opinion of Heather Cox Richardson..or Jill Lepore!
How well has James Zogby’s idea been received?
I don't know. I am not at all connected with the DNC. But I am friends with the Scott County Dems. I am encouraging her to support the Zogby proposal. I will also write Rita Hart. Not that Iowa makes much difference to any Dem in the Electoral College now. But who knows? This could be the spark we need to recoup the 2008 primary!
By the way, thank you Bob Leonard for this opportunity to share thoughts, ideas, ...... prayers!
Thanks JD! It was new to me, but I'm going to use some things I've learned here in a post that will hopefully come out tomorrow morning.
🤞
I'm not one who cares what Biden decides to do. He and his party should lose bigly for all the calumny they've aimed at our president – Donald Trump – and his voters and backers.
After reviewing the news today about the President’s halting and confused interviews and appearances, I am even more saddened. Can he see the light long enough to make the decision to step aside? Should he even be the Commander in Chief at this time? This is beyond a discussion of the campaign. As citizens we must demand straight talk from his circle. I’m sure a number of the Democratic governors are extremely concerned.
Democrats need to also consider the impact of the top of the ballot choice for everyone running down the ballot. If you alienate voters who then stay away, those lower ballot choices are hurt too. I understand the focus on the top, but there are critical lower ballot choices across the country. The universal cause is hammering on the dangers of Trump. His loyal base won’t change but we’ve got to get all other voters.
And if you haven’t seen this, read it also. Doesn’t anyone think we’ve been deceived? https://open.substack.com/pub/seymourhersh/p/who-is-running-the-country?r=1iutjx&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Take a look at this.
https://open.substack.com/pub/ryangrim/p/kamala-harris-needs-an-open-convention?r=1iutjx&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
You have a good point about people not taking the time to look the rally up. I just went to Youtube and there were at least 8 clips or whole videos. It is out there if people look and it shows him campaigning very well. I agree with you- if it is Biden vs Trump, I am with Biden all the way.
It will take thinking way outside the box to defeat Trump. If it takes some less than calm and magical thinking to get there.....so be it. Staying the course is a sure path to losing to MAGA big. I thought all this before the debate. In fact didn’t watch the debate.
Here is an explanation of the danger of hunkering down…https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/opinion/joe-biden-president-election.html
The primary thing I need to see is the most recent polling now and in the next week or two. If the data demonstrates that Biden's support is significantly wavering (which I posit likely isn't) versus Trump, then it's best he stay as candidate. However, if polling starts to trend away from Biden, Kamala Harris is a realistic step-in due to her experience in the Biden White House and also her representing the commitments Biden made to black voters. Further, Biden pulling out of the race and then the DNP turning its back on Harris would be a significantly alienating move that would be hard to survive, imo.
Trump up by 6 according to latest polling.
Gavan Newsom has the name recognition to potentially beat Trump. The only other potentials well-known enough are already unliked, and months isn't long enough to resuscitate a political career that's no longer breathing.
The Democratic National Convention is August 19th-22nd. Early voting in Iowa will begin October 15th. I don’t know how that plays in other states. So, in Iowa a candidate has less than 60 days to mount a successful campaign to get out the vote. Impossible. In other states that time frame may be somewhere around approximately 75 days. I am sticking with Joe. It is our best shot.
Not impossible— more like the only chance to win. The thought of a MAGA President concentrates the mind and not in a good way.
Yes, Biden's performance was a disaster but a lot of the things his administration has done since he took office are overlooked as they do not create the excitement that Trump's nonsense does. There are a lot of people who do not seem to recognize that another Trump victory could very well destroy our country. As far as age goes and mental acuity goes I'm not sure Trump's mind is working well enough to be able to satisfy those who hope to use him to destroy our democracy.
It is precisely because Trump is so dangerous and reckless that our great President needs to direct us toward a team that can beat Trump. This is not about the record Biden has made….but rather about the future. And I dread to think how DT’s mind works!
Trump’s lead is up to 6 points over Biden. Here are the people who support Trump:
Rich people
White nationalists (racists)
Evangelicals and Catholics and probably Mormons
Trump is now competitive in Vermont(!!!) and Minnesota (!!!!!)
Biden must bow out of his reelection bid.
I’m incredulous that people believe that the Biden administration over the past 3.5 yrs has done a “great job”. Their accomplishments tend to be money give aways and huge spending programs. Of course people love free stuff regardless of the efficacy. How about real single payer national healthcare? Maybe some real attention to conservation and the environment? Maybe a real effort on immigration reform? Nah…too hard and people don’t love the idea of maybe having to spend some more money to shore up the country.
Oh sure. And Trump gave the wealthy $2 TRILLION in tax cuts which gave us the worst deficit EVER! Of course he and his family members received lots of “moolah” from the tax cuts. Read Moody’s analysis of what another Trump presidency will do to the economy.
How do you get GOP support and no interference from Trump to work on the “real” issues? Do you think they want Biden to have accomplishments?
What does Trump have to do with the last 3.5 yrs? He doesn't get a vote. There are approximately 70 moderate/compromise Republicans in the house that the Democrats could work with to introduce meaningful, constructive legislation. From what I could tell, there were no attempts to introduce such legislation in the past 3.5 yrs...all fluff and charity.